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Author Topic: Russian-Ukrainian War: The Wagner Rebellion  (Read 12319 times)
Rattler
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« on: 24 July 2023, 22:29:40 »
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I personally follwed this right from the start (if not earlier), and I think it will be a key point of this war and its outcome. Too late now to post stuff with the exitement of the moment, but I think it needs to be documented from all possible angles, especially on our forum.

In the following posts I will first relay my posts (in Spanish or RUS local time, JULIET) to other spaces (that originated at the moment. mostly within my German veterans group, so in German, but with the links all in English, will add translations where necessary bit by bit) and then a quick summary of the ISW Sitreps that portray a more balanced and objective (as far as this is possible in the contested information space) assessment that mainly turned out to be correct.

Please feel free to add your thoughts once I am finished.

Rattler
« Last Edit: 24 July 2023, 23:14:00 by Rattler » Logged

"War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left...": The Rattler Way Of Life (thanks! to Solideo)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9v3Vyr5o2Q
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« Reply #1 on: 24 July 2023, 22:33:55 »
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How it started for me (mainly in German, but the links in English)

2306230700J:
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Jetzt wirds nett, Stoff für Hollywood und Thriller. Ich fürchte für die geistige Gesundheit der Historiker, die diesen Krieg in 50 Jahren erklären müssen…

So gings heute früh los, Prigogine erklärte, dass alle Angriffsgründe vorgeschoben waren und erstunken und erlogen:

(Translation: Now it's getting nice, material for Hollywood and thrillers. I fear for the mental health of the historians who will have to explain this war in 50 years...

So it started this morning, Prigogine declared that all the reasons for the Invasion were fabricated and lies):https://twitter.com/gerichtberichte/status/1672326394280386567?s=48&t=KukIsgF06lx2_xgD4Nqblg


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Schritt 2 am Mittag: Wagner behauptet, RUS MoD habe sein Trainingslager mit Raketen angegriffen (mit Video), behält sich alle Optionen vor: (Translation: Step 2 at noon: Wagner claims RUS MoD attacked his training camp with missiles (with video), reserves all options) https://twitter.com/l_team10/status/1672320306323529741?s=48&t=KukIsgF06lx2_xgD4Nqblg

« Last Edit: 24 July 2023, 23:13:32 by Rattler » Logged

"War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left...": The Rattler Way Of Life (thanks! to Solideo)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9v3Vyr5o2Q
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« Reply #2 on: 24 July 2023, 22:35:03 »
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2306231500J
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Ab da Schlag auf Schlag, ich reihe mal aneinander

- MoD leugnet Angriff
https://twitter.com/gerashchenko_en/status/1672316820416503813?s=48&t=KukIsgF06lx2_xgD4Nqblg

- Prigogine erklärt MoD den Krieg, ruft die Armee auf, sich ihm anzuschliessen:

https://twitter.com/lyla_lilas/status/1672321753761173505?s=46&t=KukIsgF06lx2_xgD4Nqblg

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"War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left...": The Rattler Way Of Life (thanks! to Solideo)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9v3Vyr5o2Q
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« Reply #3 on: 24 July 2023, 22:37:37 »
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2306231530J
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2306232048J
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ACT 2 Chekov:
"Putin is aware of the situation unfolding around Prigozhin, all necessary measures are being taken, says Kremlin spokesman Peskov


Thats when the panic started: 2306232116J - 2306232140J  
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« Reply #4 on: 24 July 2023, 22:48:40 »
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2306232152J One of my English comments
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2306232301J
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Außerdem war an den Metadata der Audios zu sehen, sass die "prerecorded" waren, Prigogine ist also schon ganz wo anders … >>Moskau? Ca. 1.000 km von Beogrod https://twitter.com/jimmysecuk/status/1672349101248086017?s=48&t=e6-GbqvuTRVw3eEBuMJVsw

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« Reply #5 on: 24 July 2023, 22:51:09 »
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We were flailing, things hapened quickly, and various ideas popped to mind:

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« Reply #6 on: 24 July 2023, 22:56:44 »
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Just 25 minutes later: (I ceased to comment, just added events)

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First confirmations of Wagner actually moving (and, as I had suspected earlier when it turned out that the metadata of Prigozhines audios showed the were prerecorded earlierm were long gone from UKR):

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It´s quite interesting to read (with hindsight) all the comments on the factual tweets, room for every interpretation, and dividing the serious from the clown bloggers…

But many shared my take of a Hollywood series coming up:
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« Reply #7 on: 24 July 2023, 23:03:48 »
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So we are entering JUN 24, and I had to go to bed, but my bet was on that Wagner would go vor Rostov (turned out to be more than correct):

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The plan? https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1672364607405453313?s=48&t=e6-GbqvuTRVw3eEBuMJVsw

JETZT ist der Moment für die UKR Gegenoffensive, und zwar im Raum Bachmut, denke ich…

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« Reply #8 on: 24 July 2023, 23:06:38 »
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ISW had their SITREP out later that night, NOTE it was cut off around 0045J

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 23, 2023

Key Takeaways

    Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin appears to have launched an armed rebellion on June 23 to force a leadership change within the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) which is unlikely to succeed.
    Early reports following Prigozhin’s statements suggest that Russian internal security forces are activating in response to Prigozhin’s statements and possible Wagner moves, primarily in Moscow and Rostov, and the Kremlin appears opposed to Prigozhin’s actions.
    Prigozhin set informational conditions for this effort earlier in the day by accusing the Russian MoD and unnamed oligarchs of deceiving Putin and the Russian public in order to launch the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.
    Prigozhin likely intends to truly conduct an armed rebellion against the Russian MoD, rather than expecting Kremlin support to compel MoD leadership changes or only escalating rhetorically.
    It is therefore most likely that Prigozhin fully intends for Wagner to move against MoD leadership and forcibly remove them from power, more likely against the Southern Military District command in Rostov-on-Don but possibly also against Moscow.
    An armed Wagner attack against the Russian military leadership in Rostov-on-Don would have significant impacts on Russia’s war effort in Ukraine.
    Prigozhin’s apparent start of an armed rebellion is the culmination of his campaign to retain control over his military forces, and he likely views the rebellion as an existential survival effort.
    Prigozhin’s likely intention was to gain the allegiance of senior Russian officers and military personnel, but he is unlikely to secure sufficient military support considering that Wagner-affiliated Army General Sergei Surovikin denounced Prigozhin’s call for armed rebellion.
    Even if the Wagner Group can credibly threaten the MoD, Putin is incredibly unlikely to acquiesce to a successful effort by Prigozhin to topple the MoD.
    Ukrainian forces conducted counteroffensive operations on at least two sectors of the front on June 23.
    Russian forces conducted another series of missile and drone strikes against Ukraine on June 23, primarily targeting a Ukrainian airfield in Khmelnytskyi Oblast.
    Russian forces continued to conduct limited ground attacks in the Kupyansk area, and Russian and Ukrainian forces continued to skirmish south of Kreminna.
    Russian forces did not conduct any confirmed ground attacks in the Bakhmut area.
    Russian and Ukrainian forces continued limited offensive operations along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City front.
    Russian and Ukrainian forces continued ground attacks in the western Donetsk-eastern Zaporizhia Oblast border area.
    Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations in western Zaporizhia Oblast.
    Russian federal subjects and the Wagner Group continue efforts to conceal the true scale of Russian and Wagner losses in Ukraine.
    Ukrainian officials reported that Russian and occupation administrations continue to disregard the lives of Ukrainian civilians in occupied territories.

Details, maps and Sources: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-23-2023
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"War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left...": The Rattler Way Of Life (thanks! to Solideo)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9v3Vyr5o2Q
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« Reply #9 on: 24 July 2023, 23:10:11 »
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More tomorrow, off to 2m horizontal (Insider, I know...  Brede lach)
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"War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left...": The Rattler Way Of Life (thanks! to Solideo)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9v3Vyr5o2Q
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