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Author Topic: Docu: The Greatest Tankbattles  (Read 9045 times)
Koen
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« on: 30 October 2010, 14:22:41 »
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The Discovery & History Channels are, next to my movie-addiction, the main thing I watch on TV.

I recently saw an episode of a new series on Tankbattles with stunning new CGI (Computer-generated imagery). Together with the voice-over, info and data these new CGI videos really get your attention.

Quote
EP #1 – THE BATTLE OF 73 EASTING
The 1991 Gulf War's 'Battle of 73 Easting' is the most studied tank battle of modern times. This is the story of how the American 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment used superior equipment and training to overcome a blinding sandstorm and hundreds of tanks manned by Iraq's elite Republican Guard.

EP #2 – THE OCTOBER WAR: BATTLE FOR THE GOLAN HEIGHTS
In 1973, Syria launches a surprise attack against Israel in the Golan Heights. This is a story of survival, where a few out-numbered tankers manage to hold off an enemy of overwhelming size in one of the greatest tank battles ever waged.

EP #3 – THE BATTLES OF EL ALAMEIN
In 1942, Rommel's Desert Afrika Corps faces off against Montgomery's Eighth Army. This is the story of the climax in the struggle for North Africa, which would change the course of the Second World War.

EP #4 – THE BATTLE OF THE BULGE: RACE TO BASTOGNE
In December 1944, German forces launch a surprise attack through the Ardennes Forest in Belgium. This is the story of the American tankers who helped defend the American line against Hitler's final gamble on the western front.

EP #5 – THE BATTLE FOR THE HOCHWALD GAP
In February 1945, Canadian forces launch an attack to cross the Rhine and enter the German heartland. This is the story of the struggle for the Hochwald Gap – the final obstacle blocking the Allies, which the Germans are determined to hold at any cost.

EP #6 – THE BATTLE OF THE BULGE: SS PANZER ATTACK!
In December 1944, an infamous SS tank force leads Hitler's final offensive in the west. This is the story of the Sixth Panzer Army's incredible breakthrough of the American line and subsequent encirclement and defeat.

EP #7 – THE BATTLE OF NORMANDY
On June 6, 1944, the Allies land on the northern coast of France. This is the story of the 2nd Canadian Armoured Brigade as they fight their way inland against a stubborn and ruthless German defence.

EP #8 – THE BATTLE OF ARRACOURT
By September 1944, Patton's hard-charging Third Army threatens to breech the German border. This is the story of the largest tank-vs-tank clash of the Second World War, as Hitler masses hundreds of panzers in a desperate bid to halt Patton's advance.

EP #9 – THE BATTLE OF KURSK: NORTHERN FRONT
In the summer of 1943, Hitler launches a massive armoured offensive in an effort to regain the upper hand on the Eastern Front. This is the story of the formidable Russian defense that stalls a massive panzer onslaught on the Northern shoulder of the Kursk salient.

EP #10 – THE BATTLE OF KURSK: SOUTHERN FRONT
The Battle of Kursk comes to a climax at the Russian village of Prokhorovka on July 12, 1943. This is the story of the largest tank battle in military history, as elite SS troops face off against Russian defenders determined to stop them whatever the cost.



I'm looking forward to see more episodes! (altough I wonder how many episodes there really are... I found notes of 10-13 or even 20 episodes on the net....quite confusing....)

some videos:

Greatest Tank Battles Info


http://www.yourdiscovery.com/video/greatest-tank-battles-assault-on-hill-2535/

The Battle of the bulge 4/5


The Golan Heights Part-1/6
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MontyB
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« Reply #1 on: 30 October 2010, 22:38:00 »
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I tried watching this series but found it incredibly annoying, after a while it just appeared to be "The Greatest American Wins of WW2", if you were to base all of your historical knowledge off that series you would walk away with the impression that Sherman's were knocking out German armour at a rate of about 10 Panthers for every Sherman.

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Koen
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« Reply #2 on: 31 October 2010, 11:01:21 »
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I tried watching this series but found it incredibly annoying, after a while it just appeared to be "The Greatest American Wins of WW2", if you were to base all of your historical knowledge off that series you would walk away with the impression that Sherman's were knocking out German armour at a rate of about 10 Panthers for every Sherman.


true, but that's something I see in most docus (90%)

heroes/aces are only to be found on the allied side in docus
when they change the subject to the 'wrong' side (or the losers) they talk about warcrimes and murders

have you seen lots of German tankaces being discussed in docus? sometimes but few...
same with the censorship, Russian veterans can easily say 'we wanted to slaughter(ed) all Germans' but a Germans veteran comments...well...is always way more moderate
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stoffel
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« Reply #3 on: 31 October 2010, 11:47:15 »
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Try battlefield detectives on history channel, they are more objective Knipoog
But in battlefield an entire episode is spend on Wittman.

One of the other very annoying things most of these  programs have is that they speak about panzertanks.........
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« Reply #4 on: 1 November 2010, 01:20:35 »
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I tried watching this series but found it incredibly annoying, after a while it just appeared to be "The Greatest American Wins of WW2", if you were to base all of your historical knowledge off that series you would walk away with the impression that Sherman's were knocking out German armour at a rate of about 10 Panthers for every Sherman.


true, but that's something I see in most docus (90%)

heroes/aces are only to be found on the allied side in docus
when they change the subject to the 'wrong' side (or the losers) they talk about warcrimes and murders

have you seen lots of German tankaces being discussed in docus? sometimes but few...
same with the censorship, Russian veterans can easily say 'we wanted to slaughter(ed) all Germans' but a Germans veteran comments...well...is always way more moderate


There was another program based on air battles and it was the same format, mainly yanks shooting down Germans and Japanese by the bucket load and occasionally you would get a passing reference to an allied plane shot up when in reality entire allied squadrons were lost two or three times between D-Day and the end of the war.

I think it is very unfortunate that we have allowed flashy graphics to replace objectivity in history as there are people out there that believe what they are being shown is factual and when they forget how close a run thing WW2 really was then we run the risk of history repeating itself.

I was lucky enough to have had family who served through WW2 on both sides and their view was generally that the average soldier on all sides was the same, they were all just caught up in a situation doing what ever they had to do to survive so there was very little residual animosity.
« Last Edit: 1 November 2010, 01:26:01 by MontyB » Logged

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Koen
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« Reply #5 on: 1 November 2010, 12:17:23 »
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I tried watching this series but found it incredibly annoying, after a while it just appeared to be "The Greatest American Wins of WW2", if you were to base all of your historical knowledge off that series you would walk away with the impression that Sherman's were knocking out German armour at a rate of about 10 Panthers for every Sherman.



true, but that's something I see in most docus (90%)

heroes/aces are only to be found on the allied side in docus
when they change the subject to the 'wrong' side (or the losers) they talk about warcrimes and murders

have you seen lots of German tankaces being discussed in docus? sometimes but few...
same with the censorship, Russian veterans can easily say 'we wanted to slaughter(ed) all Germans' but a Germans veteran comments...well...is always way more moderate



There was another program based on air battles and it was the same format, mainly yanks shooting down Germans and Japanese by the bucket load and occasionally you would get a passing reference to an allied plane shot up when in reality entire allied squadrons were lost two or three times between D-Day and the end of the war.

I think it is very unfortunate that we have allowed flashy graphics to replace objectivity in history as there are people out there that believe what they are being shown is factual and when they forget how close a run thing WW2 really was then we run the risk of history repeating itself.

I was lucky enough to have had family who served through WW2 on both sides and their view was generally that the average soldier on all sides was the same, they were all just caught up in a situation doing what ever they had to do to survive so there was very little residual animosity.




True, when you have no knowledge on what really happened it does seem that war is more like a video/computer game. We guys know better but when some young folks look at this they don't see blood or dead soldiers, they don't see veterans with tears in their eyes when they tell stories from 70 years ago. I all looks so clean and full of heroes.

I've seen the docus on airbattles and indeed, there was little said about the German aces with hundreds of kills. (wiki list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_air_aces ).

When thinking about it, my description on the TankBatlle series is probably too enthousiastic due to my 'Combat Mission' playing addiction, I just wished that CM looked so good  whistle
Luckily I've been (historically) interested long enough and seen enough docus, read books to know (within limits) how it really was.
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stoffel
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« Reply #6 on: 1 November 2010, 18:14:10 »
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One of the links I have added for the Arnhem battle lists the efforts of the Luftwaffe over the battlefield in Arnhem, they did quite well.
And yes, you almost never hear anything about their battles and achievements.
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« Reply #7 on: 2 November 2010, 07:38:57 »
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One of the aspects I think that many of these documentaries over look is that in many ways the achievements of allied tankers throughout the war were carried out with the full knowledge that the vehicles they were given were no match for the vehicles they were going up against, I am not sure how enthusiastic I would be to go up against a Panther, Tiger or even PZ-IV in a Sherman and the same goes for Luftwaffe pilots late in the war when you know that the enemy has better aircraft and overwhelming numbers.
 
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Koen
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« Reply #8 on: 2 November 2010, 12:44:48 »
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One of the aspects I think that many of these documentaries over look is that in many ways the achievements of allied tankers throughout the war were carried out with the full knowledge that the vehicles they were given were no match for the vehicles they were going up against, I am not sure how enthusiastic I would be to go up against a Panther, Tiger or even PZ-IV in a Sherman and the same goes for Luftwaffe pilots late in the war when you know that the enemy has better aircraft and overwhelming numbers.


again depends on what the docu makers want to achieve

I heard in other docus when a Sherman driver saw a Panther/Tiger: 'I'd shit my pants and just wanted to get the hell out of there....'
And Luftwaffe pilots end-of-war saying: 'We were left with 2 vets, all the rest were noobs and there we were, 5 of us against 50 of them....wtf!'
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« Reply #9 on: 3 November 2010, 18:48:32 »
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moral of this story, dont pick fights with the rest of the world.
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